You are correct and you are correct TB Rosh Hashana 12

Yesterday we studied disagreement between Rabbi Eliezer who believed the world was created in the month of Tishre and Rabbi Yehoshua who believe that the world was created in the month of Nisan.  The High Holiday makhzor sides with Rabbi Yehoshua. At the end of the three special additions to the Musaf service on Rosh Hashana, Malkhiyot, Zikhronot, and Shofarot, we pray “הַיּוֹם הֲרַת עוֹלָם-On this day, the world came into being” Yesterday I foreshadowed that this isn’t the universal accepted opinion.

Two weeks ago we read parashat Noah in the synagogue. Although the Torah gives us some specific information about Noah like he entered the ark in the second month and he remained inside for a whole year, other details are left unknown. The disagreement between Rabbi Eliezer and Rabbi Yehoshua impacts the story of Noah. According to Rabbi Eliezer the second month would be Iyar since the first month of the calendar year is Nisan. Remember when the Israelites were preparing to leave Egypt, God tells them that this month i.e. Nisan is the first month of the year. According to Rabbi Yehoshua the second month would be Heshvan, the month immediately following Tishre. The Gemara analyzes each rabbi’s position and comes to a conclusion in today’s daf TB Rosh Hashana 12.

“And Rabbi Eliezer and Rabbi Yehoshua follow their lines of reasoning, as they disagreed about this same issue in another context as well. As it is taught in a baraita: “In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day were all the fountains of the great deep broken open, and the windows of heaven were opened” (Genesis 7:11). Rabbi Yehoshua says: That day was the seventeenth of Iyyar, the second month of the year counting from Nisan, which is the day that the constellation of Kima (Pleiades-gg) sets during the day and the season that the springs diminish with the increased heat. But because the people of the generation of the flood changed their actions for the worse, the Holy One, Blessed be He, changed for them the acts of Creation, and instead of Kima setting, He caused the constellation of Kima to rise during the day and He removed two stars from Kima, and in this way He brought a flood to the world.

“Rabbi Eliezer disagrees and says: That day was the seventeenth of Marḥeshvan, the second month counting from Tishrei, which is the day that the constellation of Kima rises during the day and the season that the springs increase. But because the people changed their actions for the worse, the Holy One, Blessed be He, changed for them the acts of Creation and He caused the constellation of Kima to rise during the day, and He removed two stars from it and He brought a flood to the world.” (Sefria.org translation) Either way God rewired, so to speak, Creation to bring about the flood.

Israel only has two seasons, the rainy season in the fall and winter and the dry season when no rain falls in the spring and summer. Knowing this fact makes Rabbi Yehoshua’s position more logical. The Gemara tries to make sense of Rabbi Eliezer’s position.

“The Gemara asks: Granted, according to Rabbi Yehoshua, who holds that the flood began in the month of Iyyar, this is as it is written: “In the second month,” which is referring to the month of Iyyar, the second month from Nisan. But according to Rabbi Eliezer, who holds that the flood began in the month of Marḥeshvan, what is the meaning of “the second month”? The Gemara answers: It means second to the month that includes the day of judgment, which is the month of Tishrei.

“The Gemara asks further: Granted, according to Rabbi Yehoshua, who holds that the flood began in the month of Iyyar, this is what it means that He changed the acts of Creation with a flood, as rain does not usually fall in Iyyar. But according to Rabbi Eliezer, who holds that the flood began in Marḥeshvan, what did He change?

“The Gemara answers: Even according to Rabbi Eliezer a change was made, in accordance with the statement of Rav Ḥisda, as Rav Ḥisda said: They sinned with boiling heat, and they were punished with boiling heat; they sinned with the boiling heat of the sin of forbidden sexual relations, and they were punished with the boiling heat of scalding waters. This is derived from a verbal analogy. It is written here, with regard to the flood: “And the waters abated” (Genesis 8:1), and it is written elsewhere, with regard to King Ahasuerus: “And the heated anger of the king abated” (Esther 7:10), which implies that the word “abated” means cooled. This indicates that at first the waters of the flood had been scalding hot. (This is a clear case of medah kneged medah-measure for measure. The wicked people of the generation of the flood’s punishment matched their crime.-gg)

“The Sages taught in a baraita: The Jewish Sages count the years from Creation and the flood in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Eliezer, from Tishrei, and they calculate the cycles of the sun and the moon in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yehoshua, from Nisan.” (Sefaria.org translation) As you can read, the sages rendered a split decision.

When was the world created –in Tishre like the makhzor or in Nisan like the conclusion of today’s daf? Who is correct? In good Jewish fashion according to Rabbeinu Tam both are. “Alternately, according to Rabbeinu Tam, Creation took place on two levels: in Teshrei God decided that He would create the world, and in Nissan He did so. Thus Rosh Hashanah is literally the day on which the world was conceived in God’s plan.” (Commentary from the Art Scroll Rosh Hashanah Makhzor (Ashkenaz), page 509)